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Some of the list members do not participate in IRC.  The times 
are EDT local to me:

[04:38:22]  thomasvs_ is now known as thomasvs
[04:41:49] _warren- thomasvs: you there?
[04:43:48] _thomasvs- yeah
[04:44:36] _warren- thomasvs: Any comments on  
	http://www.fedora.us/pipermail/fedora-devel/2003-April/001117.html
[04:44:44] _warren- Nobody replied, so I'm just going to go 
	ahead with it.
[04:45:40] _warren- thomasvs: Is that enough for you to want 
	to use Fedora stable and trust that it 
	doesn't screw up existing RH packages?
[04:47:46] _thomasvs- actually, no, but I was thinking about 
	how to comment on it - what it is that doesn't gel with me
[04:48:08] _thomasvs- I just don't like the idea of anyone but 
	redhat messing with my absolute basic packages
[04:48:32] _thomasvs- the net result will be that a lot of 
	people will avoid the testing repo because of it

- --------------------

The timestamp headers on 
      http://www.fedora.us/pipermail/fedora-devel/2003-April/001117.html
are:  Mon Apr 28 01:31:00 2003

TZ is not stated ... but Hawaii is -5 from EDT (I think), so 
less than 24 hours ...

- ---------------

later:

[07:35:09] _thomasvs- warren: the reason [FreshRPMs]  works 
	in the sense that people use his packages is exactly 
	because he only provides add-ons
[07:35:31] _thomasvs- warren: I don't think you really 
	understand the difference in impact between providing 
	add-ons and updates
[07:47:32] _warren- thomasvs: I understand the risk very well, 
	and I can only say that if Fedora has RH 
	updated packages as the result of extensive regression testing 
	that is something I would personally be 
	comfortable using.  If you don't feel comfortable using it, 
	then please don't use it.

Fedora doing "extensive regression testing" to front-run Red
Hat on releasing updates -- curious; Fedora is no-where near
even formal test plans.  Quite a distant change from:

	Fedora is a community project dedicated to building 
	high-quality, 3rd party rpms, for the RedHat [sic] Linux 
	distribution. Our goal is to facilitate easy package 
	installation through automatic update methods such as apt and 
	yum, while at the same time maintaining first rate security 
	procedures. 

Neither change on a prioritized TODO list; Not in the
Bugzilla. Unilateral decision on short turn.  These are echoes
of unaddressed matters from two months ago:

   http://www.owlriver.com/projects/fedora/2-18-concerns.txt
   http://www.owlriver.com/projects/fedora/fedora-freshrpms-overlaps.txt

I give up.  Really and truly, the lack of patience for comment
and for allowing a consenus response to develop are so
troubling that I will not be spending my time trying to follow
and guess what is in another's mind any more.

I usually may be found at #orc on irc.oftc.net or #yellowdog
on irc.freenode.net if not around #fedora

- -- Russ Herrold

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